[20:51] * Now talking in #c64friends [20:51] Howdy all [20:51] 'k [20:51] Hey Snog [20:51] ey snog [20:52] I could do it on my smp board, but i do it in C on the linux side. If i can show to you the C code, you could probabbly translate it to asm [20:52] Hi Snogpitch. [20:52] what are you trying to do? [20:52] see, now this is why i used cp/m for devel... in cp/m all you do is the actual driver, the dos is already there. with 64/128 stuff you have to do all the dos shit too [20:53] Hey, is there any of the Chicago group here? [20:53] brb, water, need drink [20:53] Not too many of the Chicago folks make it here, Caricon [20:53] need info about their expo? [20:54] so anyhow, rel files got you guys eh? [20:54] There is enough of our user group that goes to the C= shows, and we were wondering about getting a table. To promote our user group, but we are mainly an Amiga group, but some have interest in C64's [20:54] * ajk chuckles politely [20:55] Amiga!!! [20:55] prolly for the same reasons cp/m has you guys out to dry [20:55] * Slarti hisses and hides [20:55] no, most ppl don't give a shit about cp/m ajk [20:55] seriously [20:55] and Betamax [20:55] * _brain_ (~brain@12-217-178-211.client.mchsi.com) has joined #c64friends [20:55] * ChanServ sets mode: +o _brain_ [20:56] We have a few users that still have a bunch of Commodore items, and use them. [20:56] is a 32meg partition acceptable for a cbm machine in native mode? [20:56] * TMR{C0S} has heard of CP/M but never actually felt the need to use it. [20:56] brain! [20:56] hi Jim [20:56] Hey Jim [20:56] i need a IFFL levelcruncher for CP/M [20:56] Roger even makes it up to our user group meetings. [20:56] now!!1 [20:56] <_brain_> Hmm, must be me... [20:56] Howdy _brain_ [20:56] ian, heheh [20:56] i'm serious [20:56] brain felt his ears burning :/ [20:56] <_brain_> Reports of my demise have been greatly exaggerated [20:57] * Galaxus (Galaxus@66.195.219.70) has joined #c64friends [20:57] Hi [20:57] http://www.swrapexpo.org/ [20:57] brain: glad to hear the cybernetics implants went well [20:57] Ian: what the hell for? [20:57] hehe [20:57] That site has reservation info for tables for dealers [20:58] Howdy Galaxus [20:58] dBaseIII CP/M onefiles [20:58] <_brain_> ajk, yeah, aside from the information overload, things are sweet [20:58] How's it going? [20:58] ofcouse [20:58] (shit: onefileD) [20:58] LOL [20:58] Snogpitch: yea I saw that. Justj wondering how users would feel about a mostly Amiga user group having a table at the Commodore 64/128 show. [20:58] why not? [20:58] I wouldn't have a problem with it... [20:59] you'd probably get lynched [20:59] hehe [20:59] there are alot of Amiga users at expos [20:59] alot of 64'ers are amiga too [20:59] rabid commie users would swarm your table and smash stuff! [20:59] see, it was something like that we were thinking of. [20:59] I'm one [20:59] I love both the C64 (and C128) and A500 [20:59] amiga would have been better with a little endian cpu [20:59] big endian is finally dead [20:59] actually, probably any c64 users not into amiga, would just stand off a bit and glare and sneer and such [21:00] I'd say, make the reservation, and indicate what you plan to sell, if they think it's "not appropriate" you'll probably be notified [21:00] * Garth (~Javauser@c210-49-212-114.eburwd6.vic.optusnet.com.au) has joined #c64friends [21:00] Howdy Garth [21:00] Hi Garth [21:00] hi all [21:00] Hey Garth [21:01] so anyway, back to my little poll here [21:01] I would think Amiga would be more acceptable than say Atari stuff [21:01] is a 32meg partition size good enough for a 64 or 128? [21:01] I would agree strongly Snog [21:01] ajk: no [21:01] * JLawless (~jimbo@dialup-4.228.210.253.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net) has joined #c64friends [21:01] Hi JLawless [21:01] some ppl have enormous collections [21:01] Yes... erm, no... oh, i don't know i still use a 1541! [21:01] slarti: why not? the scheme i have going now allows up to 10 active at any time [21:02] Greets Galaxus, all.. [21:02] Why only 32 meg? [21:02] seems like an odd restriction [21:02] 664blocks would be enough for everyone [21:02] 8 bit track/sector numbers [21:03] Howdy JLawless [21:03] so prolly less technically [21:03] I'll have to look again at my code [21:03] Hi Snog. [21:03] Anyone do any writing to C64 disks in a format not 'standard'? [21:03] * destine (~pirch@c-24-22-179-139.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #c64friends [21:04] CCCC might not have tables at the Chicago Expo this year [21:04] 65280 256 byte sectors [21:04] Such as designing your own track structure and such? [21:04] hello snog, ajk [21:04] 16711680 16 megs [21:04] Howdy destine [21:04] Snogpitch: why? [21:04] Hi destine [21:04] ey destine [21:04] Galaxus: I had used tracks 36 and up. [21:04] hello galaxus [21:04] I'm probably not going this year...commitments at work that weekend [21:04] i forgot it was limited to 16megs, 32 megs is cp/m's limit [21:04] Galaxus: I have [21:05] I tried but didnt' get very far [21:05] Hello Fungus [21:05] hi destine [21:05] Not sure if Roger is going to be able to make it either [21:05] Galaxus: d64-editor author also, he starts to write programs from track 1 and susequently ****s up the interleaves :D [21:05] iAN_CooG: yeah, I hate that program [21:05] If Roger doesn't go, definitely no CCCC tables [21:05] :) [21:05] IAN:What d64 editor sucks? [21:05] and actually, technically, cp/m can handle 17592186044416 byte partitions, but it can't only due to limits within how the directory is used [21:06] i mean, it would be not so difficult to fix that behaviour [21:06] cbm4win is kinda ok, but I wish you could enter a d64 and copy files out! [21:06] We will be discussing SWRAP Expo at tommorrow's meeting [21:06] I'd like to find a good d64 editor [21:06] how is Rogers wife? [21:06] no it isn't when inecting prg in d64s [21:06] Galaxus: just use star commander [21:06] OK, last I heard [21:06] 17592186044416 partition would be 4294967296 4k sectors [21:06] for the other tasks, ok [21:06] ok. He told us he wouldn't be at the meeting last week. [21:06] btw i still prefer SC or 64copy [21:06] 64/128 want 256 byte blocks, and 2 of those bytes are used for the next t/s link [21:06] sc is the best [21:06] Haven't used that in a while but had good results with it in regards to writing images to floppies... [21:07] Anyone here also a Radio Shack Coco fan? [21:07] so you end up with 256 sectors/track and 255 tracks [21:07] 64copy has good companion tools, can't leave out it and using only sc [21:07] Limited though it was... [21:07] galaxus: no [21:07] ends up a touch under 16 megs [21:07] Ian: like what? [21:07] That was another machine I enjoyed long long ago [21:07] dir edit [21:07] * PyRo (null@d60-65-170-198.col.wideopenwest.com) has joined #c64friends [21:07] file recovery [21:07] ajk: enter the CMD hd partition max size :) [21:07] disassembler [21:07] Howdy PyRo [21:08] Howdy [21:08] hello pyro [21:08] ascii-petscii conversion [21:08] hi [21:08] fungus: exactly my point [21:08] * PJimAFK (photojim@static24-72-58-116.regina.accesscomm.ca) Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [21:08] so make it so you can have 65536 partitions [21:08] also, 64copy can edit/manage G64 [21:08] fungus: you can't.... [21:08] why not? [21:09] Ian: interesting [21:09] ok, i admit to not being a h/w or even that techy, but 64hdd can use any size hdd can't it? [21:09] fungus: a track link with a zero is considered the end of the file [21:09] * iAN_CooG NP: Metallica - One [21:09] slart yeah I believe so [21:09] Slarti, depends on your DOS version [21:09] ajk: yeah, if byte 2 is 2 or more [21:09] the sector number becomes number of bytes used in the end sector [21:09] brb [21:09] ajk: you misunderstood what I said [21:09] so, 64hdd can use any size partition, there's your competition ajk [21:09] heh [21:10] yes, i know what you said [21:10] ajk: 1 partition can be 16 megs, make more partitions [21:10] you still lose though (think about it) [21:10] * Fuzz-PSW (~Fuzz-PSW@205.211.52.54) has joined #c64friends [21:10] ey fuzzball [21:10] Howdy Fuzz-PSW [21:10] hi guys [21:10] ajk: how big is 16*65536 ? [21:10] fungus: right, and my current soulution accepts drive numbers 0 thru 9 [21:11] 1048576 [21:11] so like 10 GB then ? [21:11] max geometry with 100% compatability is 256 * 255 [21:11] 65280 [21:12] 10GB is more than enough for a 64/128 [21:12] well, the real numbers would be... [21:12] add your drive #'s [21:12] 16711680 bytes raw [21:13] 167116800 raw in 10 partitions [21:13] <_brain_> Or partitions numbers [21:13] <_brain_> Or pseudo subdirs in partitions [21:13] 159 megs [21:13] ajk: thats only 10 partitions [21:13] Gotta run - be back later hopefully. bye all! :-D [21:13] * Galaxus (Galaxus@66.195.219.70) Quit [21:13] 65535 paritions [21:14] partitions [21:14] fungus: you could always cheat and have a sub-dir as a new partition (like unix...) [21:14] I'm using how cmd does it as an example [21:14] what size is thier block? [21:14] same [21:14] 256 bytes? [21:14] yes [21:15] they use a normal 8&8 t&s link? [21:15] max parition size is ~16 megs, but you can have a hell of alot of partitions [21:15] right [21:15] you can on mine too [21:15] I speced mine out to literally have unlimited partitions on the one on the my 128 right now [21:15] so figureout that absolute maximum space which can be addressed by a 16 bit number [21:16] actually, it's a 15bit number [21:16] again, 0 is reserved [21:16] * JLawless (~jimbo@dialup-4.228.210.253.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net) has left #c64friends [21:16] boot parition, ok I'll give you that [21:17] I'll have to finish my partition spec, and show it to you. I think the best way would be to have a 0: as the root partition, and then attach other partitions like unix does [21:17] that way it would look like one huge disk [21:17] keep in mind programmers who want direct access [21:18] and like the 1581, when you change partitions, you get different free blocks [21:18] direct access could be tagged with the partition [21:18] v.s. a plain unit # [21:18] I mean so iffl systems could be used, from INSIDE the drive [21:18] basically meaning.... [21:19] cd to the partition, and all the da commands will only affect the current partition [21:19] to me, that would make alot of sense [21:19] no using standard commands [21:20] when I mean direct access, I mean direct access [21:20] yep, using standard u1: and u2: [21:20] no u1/u2 shit [21:20] then what direct access do you mean? [21:20] uploading to the drive, your own control syste, [21:20] with your own handshaking , etc [21:20] oh, a boot partition? [21:20] no, into ram, and taking control [21:21] or? [21:21] oic [21:21] well, think about this for a sec [21:21] there is no m-w or m-r commands [21:21] it's more on the level of ramdos [21:21] snog I see your running a clearance on c= hardware etc, do you have any 1571 drive mechanisms amongst the list? [21:21] even with ide64 we can upload our own code to the drive [21:21] there's no seperate cpu, unless you stuffed it inside a 1541 [21:22] ahh, that creates a problem [21:22] actually, it removes a bottleneck [21:22] and creates some more [21:22] hehe [21:22] 1m/sec is hardly a bad thing, no need to upload any of your own code [21:22] take an iffl system, where there is no "padding" between files [21:23] or, a program which requires irq loading [21:23] Just a mech? [21:23] I have a personal one that has a bad power supply I took out [21:24] why would you want to irq load something that can dma load? [21:24] yes were 240 voly 50 cycles in this part of the globe so the rest wouldn't be of use to me [21:24] becuase the original software does that [21:24] use it on a 41 then [21:24] why? :) [21:24] oh, nice solution [21:24] it's not designed to replace a 41 [21:25] it's mass storage that is fast, period [21:25] 41 will eventually die for good [21:25] Not sure how compatible the drive would be after the voltage conversions [21:25] it's not iec bus, that i leave to people who wanna toy with that sort of thing, I did that 10 years ago and decided that it's to friggin slow [21:25] I like the cmd drive , becuase they are compatable, although, IDE would be nice... and dma too IF you want [21:26] i put the drive from my remote 1571 to repair the 128d and am looking for a drive to repair the remote now [21:26] isn't brain's gadget aiming for compatibility? ;) [21:26] Do you have one in need of repair? [21:26] right now there are 3 ways I can read a sector from the drive [21:26] <_brain_> v1 is aiming for DOS and IEC compatibility [21:26] I can bit twiddle, pdma, or dma to reu [21:26] flexibility is always nice [21:26] <_brain_> But, not 6502 code emulations [21:26] the remote drive power supply and circuit boards are ok [21:27] once you remove that, loads of software will never work with it [21:27] let me open up the drive and see what mech is inside [21:27] but eventually? [21:27] fungus: so then, the slowness is wanted? to me that seems utterly stupid. [21:27] not always, but sometimes [21:27] compatibility ajk [21:27] it;s to have a flexible system [21:27] makes sense, for actual users [21:27] then cram it inside a 1541 [21:28] plus the freight to get an entire 1571 here would be scary [21:28] the same board can be inserted inside a 1541 or 1571 drive [21:28] the majority of software, was written for a disk drive [21:28] then you got your crappy slow iec [21:28] and would require extensive modification to work on a drive such as you are doing, in effect, redering that software unusable, eventually. [21:28] but if you want speed, then you go with the expansion bus [21:29] 1571 drives are a rarity over here the 1570 was far more common [21:29] ajk: I am suggesting a flexible system, where you can choose :> [21:29] It's a Mitsumi Newtronics mech [21:29] you can choose on mine too [21:29] between dma and serial? [21:29] multiple computers [21:30] thats also nice [21:30] not just cbm [21:30] mine works on atari, apple, etc [21:30] pc ? [21:30] linux... [21:30] above that it says D502 [21:30] linux lp port [21:30] ko [21:30] I refuse to write anything under doze [21:31] just removing the cover from my 1571 now [21:31] i don't need the headaches that come with it [21:31] ok [21:31] well, I refuse to use linux, until they make it so I dont have to be a rocket scientist to install it. [21:31] Mine was setting within 15 feet of me, so I had good access to it [21:31] use slackware then, it's a nobrainer install [21:31] I simply dont have the time [21:32] * TMR{C0S} wanders off... [21:32] cu TMR [21:32] Staying over on IRCNet for a bit Fungus, but i'm getting tired. =-) [21:32] write the dos/doze driver then [21:32] * TMR{C0S} waves and trundles away... =-) [21:32] niters TMR{C0S} [21:32] * TMR{C0S} (~tmr@cpc2-leed5-5-0-cust190.leed.cable.ntl.com) Quit (Quit: www.cosine.org.uk \\ www.oldschool-gaming.com) [21:32] I dont know anything at all about coding a modern system [21:32] mitsumi newtronics d502 if that means anything heaps of german writing on stickers inside it too [21:32] * ajk smerks [21:33] had this convo with ivan last night [21:33] fungus: I do, that is why i won't touch doze [21:33] OK, I don't see any German on mine, but it matches the Mitsumi Newtronics d502 [21:33] too much hardware with hack n slash compatability, too many os's, and too much not following the rules. [21:34] garth: is it leaf spring or coil spring type? there are 2 versions of the mech [21:34] I've heard you complain about similar issue's myself. [21:34] fungus: yup [21:34] This is not a 1571-II [21:34] what works on system a, doesnt on system b, and intermittently on system c [21:35] fungus: that is due to what is in-part half an os issue, and half a hardware issue [21:35] It HAD the internal power supply before I took it out and put it into another mech for a fellow club member [21:35] I have no desire to endure such torture :) [21:35] Last time I used it, it worked fine. [21:35] most of the c= stuff over here is german or british made, whem you say leaf or coil is this the release cam spring? [21:36] fungus: to be honest, doze has a terrible set of rules and controls [21:36] ye sit does [21:36] all that was done on purpose [21:36] so bill can keep reselling [21:36] i took the slirp code here, which worked great on one doze system here, refused on another... idintical setups [21:36] To tell you the truth, I wouldn't know how to describe the disk levering mechanism....but it looked the same in my 128-D [21:36] I have no desire to be involved in such capitalist sillyness [21:37] it also apears nobody else can use the binary either [21:37] huh? [21:37] I also beleive that virus companies and other such companies, write the virusus to maintain thier product. [21:37] * ajk nods [21:37] the mech is identical to the 128 d as the oridial drive unit is in my plastic d [21:38] don't say crap now :D [21:38] it's not true [21:38] they follow the Kennedy approach [21:38] orginal [21:38] Ian: no, it is true [21:38] and M$ should patch the ****ing swiss cheese, but then, how else could they sell a newer better version :-) [21:38] ajk: exactly [21:38] I'd be willing to sell the mech for $5 plus shipping [21:38] it's crap, redhat does the same shit [21:38] Guarenteed the shipping would be more than that tho [21:39] it's a buisness, and all is fair [21:39] fungus: no [21:39] thats how the game is played [21:39] fungus: we can do somethig about it, boycott :-) [21:39] buisness is war [21:39] just no bloodshed, most of the time [21:39] crap [21:40] freight from the us isnt too bad it would cos $30.00 to mail it to the other side of melbourne [21:40] My postal zip code is 45011 in the USA, if you want to go to your local postal service to get an estimate [21:41] weve got western union offices all over australia so sending the money would be no problem [21:41] I would get the mech and padding would be 2 pounds max [21:42] what's your zipcode? let me see what Fed Ex charges? [21:42] mine is 3128 , box hill victoria ,australia [21:44] it'll take a bit to enter the info... [21:44] i saw the ad in a newsgroup bu thught it would be a waste inporting an entire drive when the electrical parts can only be used in the states [21:44] ok, so.... lemmie get this straight [21:44] Ian: the most obvious example of this technique, is cell phone companies [21:44] what if... [21:45] you could have both the iec or the expansion port [21:45] Ian: you subscribe to the serive, and you get a free phone [21:45] and it's just a different front-end board [21:45] with a real 6502 on it [21:45] ajk: software switchable :) [21:45] not possible to sahe the buss like that [21:45] errmmm share [21:45] hardware configurable then? [21:46] possibility, or a switch of some sort [21:46] thats what I was thinking [21:46] people would love that [21:46] point is less you need to do the better [21:46] on other systems also [21:46] other systems don't have the crutch the cbm machines have [21:46] some do [21:47] name them [21:47] atari [21:47] spectrum [21:47] tari can take it fine (use mydos) [21:47] spectrum, i donno, no experience with it [21:47] probably some other machines from europe [21:48] apple has no restrictions [21:48] It's saying $55 if I ship it for 4-5 days delivery time [21:48] nope [21:48] techinically neither does an atari [21:48] that's using international economy service [21:48] except a very few copy protected programs [21:49] and those require absolutly a 1050 or 850 drive [21:49] close won't even work [21:49] ermmm clones [21:49] I know, i've tried [21:49] That seems a steep price, but...I guess if you gotta have it. [21:49] I'm not sure if any other computer manufacturers made intelligent periferals or not [21:49] Im sure they did [21:49] if they are intellegent, that is what the actual problem is [21:50] well, partly [21:50] * beata makes pizza. [21:50] what was once a feature, is now a hindrance, I know [21:50] some allow easier integration tho [21:50] * lordronin (~lordronin@12-217-178-211.client.mchsi.com) has joined #c64friends [21:50] * JavaUser (~Javauser@dialup-4.235.159.166.Dial1.Orlando1.Level3.net) has joined #c64friends [21:50] oi gang [21:50] ey [21:50] afaik, on atari, even with thier own dos, you can stuff in a driver shim [21:50] so that would be US$60.00 all up the speed of delivery isn't critical . my email is garthelder@optusnet.com.au if youd like to email an address to send the money to [21:51] mick CMD-SCPU [21:51] mydos on atari is by far the best dos for the machine [21:51] alih: Got a question about issue #18 [21:51] I can check with UPS on Monday, see if it's any different [21:52] snog: try the post office... [21:52] * JavaUser is now known as CMD-SCPU [21:52] theres aboxed sx 64 on aus ebay at the moment [21:52] hi beeman [21:52] International shipping ajk... [21:52] hey lr [21:52] snog: use priority, it's 2-3 days and cheap. I sent al's box cross country last night for $16 [21:52] all 10lbs of it [21:52] Hoi Fungus, hows the job? [21:52] USA to AU [21:52] lr: I got 2 jobs now :) [21:52] the post office does to .au also [21:53] Snogpitch: Got your newsleter today. Where you trying to say something about "fathers day" [21:53]